New protocols

[gash599]

Well the new protocols came out last night and while they do say Detroit east on the top and DEMCA implantation date of July 1, 2008 on the bottom they do not say which pain management protocol we will use, or note that we will not be using the c-spine clearance. At least in the class I was in, I've heard every class was told different things, they said we would use the Gennese pain management and that we would not be clearing c-spine. But you know what they say if its not written down it didn't happen. So yet again the city has left use to try and figure things out on our own.

[anthonyt]

I noticed the same thing... I have, in the past, relied on using the "Written" protocols, and it has kept me out of trouble. Once, a supervisor tried to charge me, for not doing as everyone else did, and following the written protocol, and was stopped from actually filing the charges, by the chief, himself.

As far as C-Spine clearance... use your judgment. If it is written, and there is no exemption noted... it is the acceptable medical practice, and following it, will protect you in court, or so I have been told, by many an attorney. If the department has exceptions to the protocol, then they must have it in writing, and in many cases, approved by the state, as a special variance.

As for the pain management protocol... THIS IS a problem, as there is no clearly defined acceptable use for us... However, if there is an indication, that appears in ALL of the lists, then I would assume that it could hold up, as the accepted medical practice. If even one of the lists excludes or fails to mention a possible indication, then seek the guidance of medical control.

However, since there were a great many witnesses, to what could be construed as a verbal order, communicated to us, from administration, by the instructors, then I would imagine that you would be able to defend your case for the Gennessee list. If you need a witness, I too was told that in my class.

[detroitmedic3623]

i say fuck it, just drive fast.

[bigwoody00]

I wonder how fast its going to take before the entire network of jakes knows we have narcs on board.... run volume doubling, medics held at gun point, drug boxes stolen... I want more money for this shit... lol its nice to see, but at the same time I dont think we have enough rigs in place to be taking all the runs while everyone is delayed at the hospital changing boxes because they gave lil doo-doo some tylenol! not bitching about it, just trying to see both sides of it.

[DabbleDuke]

I can't WAIT to give lil doo-doo some tylenol... that way we can delay at the hospital for an hour to change out the box.... Love it!!!

[detroitmedic3623]

I wonder how fast its going to take before the entire network of jakes knows we have narcs on board.... run volume doubling, medics held at gun point, drug boxes stolen... I want more money for this shit... lol its nice to see, but at the same time I dont think we have enough rigs in place to be taking all the runs while everyone is delayed at the hospital changing boxes because they gave lil doo-doo some tylenol! not bitching about it, just trying to see both sides of it.

HAHAHAHA "lil do do" to fuckin' funny

[DabbleDuke]

So the Medics got inservice on the new protocols but not the basics... I guess the basics don't need to know them? What does our union say about this? Also, these protocols are NOT out at every station... AND since we don't have time to eat, much less shit, how are we suppose to learn them with only one copy kept at quarters? Shouldn't each person have a copy? Again, what does our union say about this?

[spitz]

Your union says instead of posting this on the web site pick up a phone and call and find out. That way we know who we are talking to. For all I know you might be Campbell.

[bigwoody00]

OH NO HE Didnt!!!! lol steve you do kinda look like cheryl..mmmmmm girl....

[DabbleDuke]

Your union says instead of posting this on the web site pick up a phone and call and find out. That way we know who we are talking to. For all I know you might be Campbell.

i dont expect the union to answer it here but i do expect the union to let their members know what they are going to do about it somehow. i dont know, maybe the com chair guy can put something out or maybe there will be a union meeting to cover it. i dont think ever member should have to call the union hall to find out. you would think that something as important as this would be talked about. i wouldnt want a union brother or sister to get charged for not knowing the protocols. just my opinion.

[anthonyt]

Basic care, really doesn't change. So, is an in-service needed? (I'm asking, not really making a point.)

As far as the protocols, and when you are supposed to learn them... I personally, have taken the time to read through them. No, not all at work, for obvious reasons, but none the less.

I have talked on the phone with Jenny's office, and am expecting that once everything is finally put together, that I will receive an email, containing a complete set of protocols, which I will see about making available to you, through the unions web site. Alternately, you can all email me, with your email addresses, and when I get it, I can forward it out to those email addresses that I have. So, if you want to get one, send me your email address, include your name, and medic unit location, please.

[therbs]

I feel that some sort of in-service would be nice. I mean the paramedic is not to only person on the truck that handles/opens/gets drugs out of the drug box. also I always felt as "we" meaning my partner and myself work as a team, thus making it important for both of us to know whats going on. I know that there are some Basics that don't do anything, and there are so paramedics that don't let the basics do anything. but it is not the case for everyone. So yes I should has been shown how the box is set up and whats is in the box/a-pac, so that when i am asked to do or get something I don't have to ask where it is.

-Steven Allen

[detroitmedic3623]

I'm at medic 6 days 2 and i got a copy on disc from my nights 2 relief.

[anthonyt]

I feel that some sort of in-service would be nice. I mean the paramedic is not to only person on the truck that handles/opens/gets drugs out of the drug box. also I always felt as "we" meaning my partner and myself work as a team, thus making it important for both of us to know whats going on. I know that there are some Basics that don't do anything, and there are so paramedics that don't let the basics do anything. but it is not the case for everyone. So yes I should has been shown how the box is set up and whats is in the box/a-pac, so that when i am asked to do or get something I don't have to ask where it is.

-Steven Allen


Indeed... But at the same time, your paramedic, should be able to bring you into the fold, so to speak. However, I see your point.

Come to think about it, with some of the new equipment, that may be trickling into this fine division... The basics should probably, at the very least, get an update to the "Basic Upgrade" that we all received in the academy.

I'll talk to the good training captain, next time I see him, and see what we can do.

[anthonyt]

I'm at medic 6 days 2 and i got a copy on disc from my nights 2 relief.


is it the PDF files from Hems, or the disc from Demca? I ask because even though they are the same, the DEMCA disc is the only way that we can prove that there are still things that the department is saying that we cannot do, yet there is no written exception, to the protocols, since the DEMCA files have the DEMCA approval in them.

[DabbleDuke]

Indeed... But at the same time, your paramedic, should be able to bring you into the fold, so to speak. However, I see your point.

Come to think about it, with some of the new equipment, that may be trickling into this fine division... The basics should probably, at the very least, get an update to the "Basic Upgrade" that we all received in the academy.

I'll talk to the good training captain, next time I see him, and see what we can do.

It shouldn't be the job of the paramedic to bring anyone up to speed... isn't that why we have a so called training division? I don't think we should argue this between us, I think we should argue this with the city. Why do we always seem to fight between each other when it should be pointed towards the city. I mean honestly, do you really think the paramedic should train a basic EMT when we HAVE a training division? What do they get paid for? The paramedics have enough to do without having to train anyone. And with comments like I've been reading, there's no wonder why a lot of basics consider themselves "Just a driver". Again, just my opinion.

[parajer]

I do not believe I agree with you dabble duke! Training should have the basics in to bring them up to speed with new proto cals! It is a matter that is why training is there. Always when you get 3rd hand info it changes. Paramedic shows a basic the wrong thing and the basic does it then then he says "well that is what the medic taught me!" Even through they do not give meds there are changes on the protocals that says MFR Basic. But I do not agree that dabble duke should go because there are no changes to cot making or driving.

[bigwoody00]

I agree... while at the training, Sutton told us that every Basic on the job as been trained in 12lead ecg electrode placement... that may, or may have not happened. But Ive been talking to alot of basics who have said that they have never been trained in that. Damon did tell me that they are working on some kind of training for the basics..

[BigYaba]

What is the union doing? I heard they were not doing a bleepin thing. as usual.........

[emsemt66]

i for one have never been taught 12 lead placement but working with chudy i have done them all anyways

[detroitmedic3623]

is it the PDF files from Hems, or the disc from Demca? I ask because even though they are the same, the DEMCA disc is the only way that we can prove that there are still things that the department is saying that we cannot do, yet there is no written exception, to the protocols, since the DEMCA files have the DEMCA approval in them.

It's the pdf from demca

[DabbleDuke]

I don't want nor need training to train me in anything. I just want a copy of the protocols that my job is suppose to depend on. And what about the paramedics that want to get a promotion, how are they suppose to do such a thing if they can't get a copy of them?

[anthonyt]

I spoke with the Training Section today. I have been told that there will be in-services coming for the Basics. They are planning them to be approximately 20-30 minutes in length, and they will cover those changes in the protocol, as they relate to the functions of the Basics.